Newbie With Questions!

[realedazed]

Hello! I guess this may be the wrong time to ask questions since I haven't read too much of the documentation.  I'm just so excited to start learning (is a huge nerd).  I heard O'Reily's Head First series is pretty good, so I picked up Head First Programming and Head First Object Oriented Design and Analysis - I think those are the names, or pretty close.

I took a beginner's C++ class, but had to drop out because of personal issues. But, I got up to IF/Else looks - yea, not much.  Anyway, I would like to actually learn something. So I figured it wouldn't hurt to get those books. So, that's the background. Here's the questions:

About how much programming should I be familiar with to get into LPC?  I know, I'd like to start very small. But, I'd like to have as little frustration as possible. 

Also the Head First: Programming book teaches with Python? Will that help or confuse me, when dealing with LPC.

I thought I had more questions, but the rest can be answered when I read the docs. Thanks!

[cratylus]

The only language I knew before messing with LPC was BASIC...the
old-style BASIC with line numbers.

You don't need any programming background to get started with LPC,
so long as "making a mud" is your objective rather than "learning how
to program".

Just read the docs and FAQs as you go along, you'll be fine.

-Crat

[Tricky]

Actually a good knowledge of boolean logic would help. (IMHO)

Tricky

[drakkos]

As a shameless plug, if you're looking to get a view for what LPC looks like, you could check out the LPC texts at http://www.monkeys-at-keyboards.com/ - LPC for Dummies 1 and LPC for Dummies 2 are the ones that are most relevant.  They were written very much for the Discworld mudlib, but they'll give you a feel for how at least one mud goes about things and how the code will look. 

Drakkos.

[daelaskai]

Coincidentally, I have the same initial experience as Crat does.  I started with the old BASIC on our Tandy computer.

As long as you understand the flow of coding in general you should be good.  Read the docs directory also!
As a previous newbie, my advice would be to clearly formulate any question you have before posting.  Crat
has a few links on what is a good question and what is not; however, I am not in the position right now to
look for them.  Ultimately, what I did was to try and read the entire mudlib first, and then started to code
to mimic what I saw and understand what it was doing.  I crashed my mud repeatedly initially.  I personally
think it's better to ask what a particular line of code does, instead of asking, "How do I do [blah]?", because
then people won't feel that you want others to code your mud for you.

As Tricky stated, knowledge of boolean logic is a great help.  I wish you luck in your endeavor.  If you get
stuck on something, read, read and read some more.  Grep helped me immensely locate other examples
of specific functions (and my Windows search program).  Intermud channels are there also if you can't
read your way out of the corner.

Daelaskai

[realedazed]

Thanks for all the responses!  I do actually want to learn to program, but I'm not using this as a way to teach myself. Its just fun.

I have an OK grasp on boolean logic. So, hopefully this will go well.

Thanks for the well wishes and I'll definately be back with questions.  I've read a few of Crat's posts and think I'll be using Dead Souls lib, since it seems to be the most popular. There's a bunch of posts that I've been reading through that have been a big help already.

[cratylus]

Crat has a few links on what is a good question and what is not; however, I am not in the position right now to
look for them.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

The general idea of those links is:

"Ask questions that can be answered briefly by a busy person, and that show
what you tried and what results you got, if it is a problem."

I strongly agree with Daelas's suggestion of using intermud for help,
but for anything that takes longer than a line or two to explain, the
forum might be better, since it lets people answer the question when
they eventually find the time. Plus, other newcomers can then search
the forum for that same answer later

I've read a few of Crat's posts and think I'll be using Dead Souls lib, since it seems to be the most popular

DS is an excellent choice for a complete newcomer to LPC because it's
meant to be as friendly and as documented and as full of examples
as reasonably possible. Just remember that despite all that, it'll still
take months, if not years, to master it.

It's also not completely crazy to sample some other libs to see how they
do things. It may turn out they make more sense to you in some hard-
to-explain way.

-Crat

[drakkos]

It should also be noted that it's a pretty big deal to start a MUD of your own, and the odds are stacked very highly aganst anything ever becoming of it in terms of getting people to play.  If it's something you're doing purely for your own pleasure, then that doesn't have to be a problem, but it should be understood.

However, it's much more enjoyable to learn how to develop a MUD if you're working with other people who can give you guidance, support and feedback.  It would be worth having a chat with developers on established projects to see whether or not they could use your assistance - that way your efforts are more likely to bear fruit and you'll have more fun at the same time.

Drakkos

[realedazed]

Drakkos:

Understood.  This is just something that I've always wanted to get into. Without being attached to a real MUD, there's no time limits or approvals that I have to get before I can do anything. Plus, I can't break anything of someone else's. I would actually love to work with a team eventually, but time is of short supply right

cratylus:

I'm actually trying out SEVERAL codebases. I've downloaded a ton, but so far my favorites are the various LP verisons, CoffeeMud and Evennia (sp?).

Hey, just wondering. Is there anything like tbaMUD or Zeno's SMUAG learning MUD, but for DS?

[Raudhrskal]

Hey, just wondering. Is there anything like tbaMUD or Zeno's SMUAG learning MUD, but for DS?

I'm not familiar with those... if you mean example areas and stuff, they're in the DS install package. If you mean a "live" MUD to log in, code on, talk with people, and stuff, Dead Souls Dev at dead-souls.net port 8000 is the right place to connect to.

[amylase]

Yea agreed.  Just dig into it and start messing with actual LPC code. Learn as you go. Ask for questions on the forum or on channels. My background was BASIC, C, AutoLISP and a bit of Java. (Have to say in some few areas LPC resembled LISP). Overall don't think they made that big of a difference.

In terms of reading material, I did find Descartes of Borg's intermediate LPC manual helpful. Just google and you'll find it easily. It goes through some of the basic concepts and syntaxes to get you started. Verb wasn't covered well unfortunately. Luckily you can find a tutorial on verbs on this website: Just go to http://dead-souls.net/  and click on "Verb tutorial". Also read through all the FAQs and other tutorials on this site. They are very useful.

Have fun.